Reference Experiences

In one of my previous post I talked about storytelling (Storytelling: A Tale of Two Students), an idea that surfaced from Coach Kondo, a colleague of mine with a track record of seduction experiences.

This post is about my own seduction experiences which tend to form the whole – what Nash from Days of Game ( called reference experiences. I will give credit to Nash for coining the term and any ideas he has previously shared with me.


For me, reference experiences refers to moments in seduction which:

1. Give an insight and awareness into the true and full range of female sexuality and psychology

2. (For me) help break the back of Beta male patterns of thought and help me embody a more Alpha mindset

3. Provide a framework of patterns of female behaviour which can be drawn on for future seduction efforts – in essence, markers which help you further down the road, like a map or landscape of experience to form a more whole picture.

In Nash’s words:

“I see Ref Exp (“learning moments” that are almost visceral, in that you “feel” the learning, and can often tie it to a theory … in that moment).”

“I think of Ref Exp as a “wizard’s spell book”. If you ever wished you had one, you will get your wish if you work hard at game. When you “see something” and “know what it means” and “what to do next”, you’re a goddamn wizard.”

“But most Ref Exp…. have to be earned. And the real “magic” is in the all the little micro-moments”.

Catalogue of Reference Experiences Pre-Game

I was a monogamous male for the first nine years of my sexual life with the first woman I was with. I then went through a sharp window of paying for sex before finding my second girlfriend with whom I decided to have a baby. I then had three girlfriends in succession, all exclusive.

There were a few tiny blips on the road – a one-night stand during a paying for sex rampage, another girl I dated and hooked up with twice, but otherwise a small group of reference experiences with very little knowledge to draw on.

Post-Game Awareness

2018 was a watershed year for me where I became fully immersed into the principles, art and science of game. What ensued were a series of seductions and near misses which opened my eyes to so many aspects of female sexuality. It was so addictive that I am now fully immersed in the learning process of game. Below are some disparate examples of lessons learnt and reference experience gained.

Miss JJ

I went on a date with a girl and opened by shaking her hand. She said it was the most formal introduction to a date she had experienced. I told her that’s the most formal it would get and told her to sit. I then looked at her with such a sexual intensity that it unsettled her. She started with the interview questions and lamented the number of first dates she had been on. I stopped her, told her I wasn’t here for a job interview, planned to seduce her, and was not here to play Scrabble. “I love Scrabble!”, she retorted.

It soon turned very sexual: she loved vibrators, had “meh” sex just last week, and I challenged her to make out with me before the end of the first drink. We made out at the bar, then I threw her against the wall near the bathroom and we made out more. We went for a quick bite to eat and told her I didn’t wear underwear – she grinned and put her hand down my pants and started to give me a handjob.

Later, on a second date, after we fucked, I asked her what she thought of me. She said the handshake threw her and she did not care any more about the date, then withdrew the thought after she was shocked by the sexual intensity of the look that I gave her. She was still equivocating at that stage and threw in the vibrator comment as a “no fucks given” test. I threw in the seduction comment because I was tired of the shit test interview.

Lessons learnt:

1. No fucks given on either part lead to an intense amount of honesty and sexual tension; and

2. Verbalising the seduction process as a last resort to remind the girl and I of what we are really meeting for.

Miss Boulder

See the post on Miss Boulder:Adventure Sex – Miss Boulder

Lessons learnt:

1. Always trust an “on” feeling, a true and genuine signal which invariably leads to a seduction. It’s a matter of when, not if.

2. I gave Miss Boulder a false time constraint by telling her I was unavailable the following day. She then arranged to meet me despite her grieving friend.

3. Shocking for me, Miss Boulder and her friend actively schemed the logistics because the friend had recommended to her we fuck in the rockclimbing gym and wanted to know the outcome. Women are equally active seducers and like to share Adventures.

The Receptionist

See the post on the Receptionist: Blue Balls Report 001 – The Receptionist

Lessons learnt:

1. Unresolved sexual tension fuels a long open lead and can surface in a short period of time.

2. Last Minute Resistance can occur literally inches away from a successful seduction. The deal is never sealed until the proverbial P is in V.

The Play Date

Miss Play Date was a long lead, dating back to 2011 when we first met in Thailand. She was a former fattie and had lost a significant amount of weight since separating from her husband.

We went on a few dates in early 2018 and then a long hiatus when I started seeing Miss Bumblebee exclusively.

In October 2018, after a brief repose away from Miss Bumblebee, I went to Miss Play Date for dinner and we made out in the hallway before I left. My son was staying over with her son so it was the only private place we could find.

On a second visit, the sexual tension was palpable and, while the boys were playing in the lounge room, I asked her to give me a “tour” of the house. Once in the bedroom I slammed the door shut and locked it, pushing her against the wall and stripping her down before fucking her from behind. I later threw her on the bed and we fucked for a short time before the boys started banging on the door. She came and I was left there with dick-in-hand and unsatisfied. We were “watching a DVD” when we re-opened the door.

Lessons learnt:

1. I did not find her attractive initially … however time had slimmed her down and she suddenly became a sexual possibility for me.

2. Logistics plays a part in every seduction. In these circumstances it was tight logistics and even tighter timeframes.

3. There was an underlying tension when I asked her to show me the house as she instinctively knew what was about to happen.

Miss Doritos

See the post on Miss Doritos: Lay Report 001 – Brazilian, 21 years old

Lessons learnt:

1. Despite her being free that night, I presented no “excitement” to her until I pinged a few messages and photos to create some tension. Simply meeting up was not enough.

2. The initial attraction and “on” feeling when you meet a woman counts for something regardless of the length of the lead-to-close (similar to Miss Boulder).

The Vegan

I met her one night at a music jam and we traded eyes. She was Australian, of mixed ethnicity, 21 years old, and smartly dressed. Before we left, we exchanged details and she came to give me a big hug.

We met up for a drink about a week later after exchanging a few messages. She appeared hippy and spiritual, open about her sexuality, and I Googled her surname to discover it was Maltese … only to “guess” her background was Maltese. She was hooked.

At the bar when we ordered drinks, she said to me: “I’ll have whatever you’re drinking”. To me this was a clear sign she wanted to be led. So I verbalised it and asked her if she wanted me to lead it from here on it, to which she replied with a strong yes.

I led her to the house, to the lounge, to a massage, to a kiss, and then stripped her naked and fingered her against the piano before throwing her on the bed and fucking her.

I discovered she was Vegan, had dyed her pubic hair mermaid blue … and had a slight rancorous smell down below. I also discovered that very tight clothing hid a serious amount of flab for a young woman. Collectively, it was a boner killer.

Lessons learnt:

1. The proverbial claim of girls without fathers being promiscuous seems to ring true in this case. She also proclaimed to be “bisexual” which is really code for “bad sex with men” in my opinion.

2. A simple phrase highlighted to me that she wanted to be led all the way through the process of seduction – “I’ll have whatever you’re drinking”.

3. Red Quest wrote about this one – once her kit came off, I was genuinely disappointed at how flabby she really was. It was a turnoff. Removing clothes always wants to be a genuine surprise rather than a genuine disappointment.

The Rest

The Pole Dancer – zero sexual charge so the sex felt transactional and mechanical.

The Architect – another Brazilian who was boyfriend shopping rather than lover shopping and would not come over to my house for a third date.

The Curator – kept on interrupting sexual tension during a kiss by making flippant commentary … and would not come over to the house for a fourth date.

Lessons learnt:

1. Sexual charge is necessary for sex! At least a modicum.

2. Three date rule is enough for me – beyond that, I lose my Frame as a lover and become an interviewee for the role of Boyfriend.

3 thoughts on “Reference Experiences

  1. Great post and mindset for learning the game. It’s definitely addictive and you’ve come a long way.

    Personally I’ve found the more of these experiences you get the more it just becomes part of you.

    This gets to the point where girls can feel “you just get it”…which makes them comfortable sharing their full sexual stories with you and also to faster escalation.


  2. Hey… great post.

    First off:

    > will give credit to Nash for coining the term

    Thank you, but, no, no, no. This is a really old term, and one that I do not think is specific to seduction. I like to give credit for everything, but I don’t know where I first heard it. It is a foundational concept.

    What I am trying to do, is stress the concept of Ref Exp as building blocks of situational mastery for a man that wants to get really, really good at this.

    I have a lot of experience now… but I am not at all bored with girls. In part, as each date, each girl gives me no/varied ref exp.

    A man will pick up Ref Exp even without trying (or being aware he is accumulating situational knowledge or abilities). But in terms of men that like to analyze what is going on in game, understanding how these pieces fall into place helps explain the progress toward mastery, or how a guy can “unlock a girl” in a given situation, or how the best guys can consistent unlock disparate girls… ref exp are the keys. Not just the ref exp to understand what is happening in a given moment, but the correlation to behavior, to action, so he can use that know-how on the fly.

    Your post is awesome.

    And you know what all your ref exps have in common? Not much. And that is part of the point. Over a player’s “career” he will accumulated 1000s and 1000s of ref exp (data points). Some, he will be able to tie to psychological trends/patterns in himself or the woman. Some are patterns, but he won’t recognize them until later.

    Think of a doctor that has “seen everything” over a 50 year career. Little odd things, here/there… and as his career progresses, he can look at a patient and diagnose the situations instantly. Or, he’ll have a ref exp that applies to a patient that reminds him of something, he’ll ask a question, and the right thing to do will be obvious based on “her” response.

    Recent example. I fucked the Athletic girl in Tokyo last month. I was in her bed, supposedly “just sleeping.” I had tried escalating and I go nothing out of her, so I resigned to sleep, maybe fuck in the middle of the night (I have man ref exp of that too), or in the morning (I have ref exp of that too). But there were a couple small things she did as we lay in bed (which reminded me of ref exp from when I was a teenager)… I know she would fuck me. And she did.

    Over and over in that scenario… I was comparing her behavior and where the seduction was at to ref exps I had… and at each step, I had solutions that worked for me. My ref exp helped me “see the future,” to stay a step/two ahead… and to understand what things meant.

    Most of us get this concept.

    I stress it, as a man’s ref exps are of invaluable importance to his game. And the longer he stays in game, the more of a compounding effect that collection of exps will have. He’ll become a wizard.

    Even for new guys, out “getting rejected”… if they are paying attn (and even if they are not), they will pick up ref exp at the level of social cues… and those bits of learning will make them “more aware” and more “slick” in set, and then… they suddenly won’t get rejected as much? Why? “I got better.” You’re right, you did… and the ref exp were the building blocks.

    > She appeared hippy and spiritual, open about her sexuality, and I Googled her surname to discover it was Maltese

    I know this wasn’t your favorite girl, but I love this list in particular. I’m not saying you were right about any of this, but this is how we put ref exp to use. We collect data, and we make guesses about what do do next based on that data.

    I had a very interesting date last night with a married woman. She was fun, but laughed almost too much – there was no sexual tension. So I got to practice pushing aside her laughter and seeing her “get serious” (and sexual). It was hard to do. I tried several things. And I got some to work… it was hot. It wasn’t easy. I wanted to give up on the date early… but I “consulted my ref exp” many times, and found a way.

    When I kissed her later in the date… and she took it, but like she was made of stone… what did that mean? Why did she take it? Why didn’t she move away? Why didn’t she tell me to stop if she didn’t want? Did she want it? Was she conflicted? Was she nervous? What did the look in her eyes mean when I stopped to read her face between kisses?

    I collected little bits of exp toward answering those questions. Across girls and time, I’ll get better at putting all these pieces into theories and patterns that will make me more adept with women.

    I caution us all to NOT be reductive about what we’re seeing. There are patterns, but they are often more complicated and nuanced than a simple read. This is why we need so many ref exps to get really, really good at this.

    Good post, man. As you can tell… I am inspired.


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